H&C Clear 23

[NS'Creter]

I know that this has been asked and answered about a jillion times elsewhere but I'm kinda slow and need the info refreshed. Why is it that we don't like H&C Clear 23 sealer? What is it that it does or does not do? Can it be used with ConRes stain?

[NS'Creter]

Last year I inadvertantly used an acetone based sealer with ConRes...we all know what happerned. Not good. I don't wanna relive that deal.

[alexwright]

I'm looking into Polyurethanes from Westcoat here in San Diego. I have some other contractors here that I have met that use them. Any input on pros and cons?? Lindy? The laquer sealers are pretty much trash But, with that said I have gone back to a sealer I used in beginning on my driveway that I thought was no good because of a fade on a sidewalk I did in back but, long story short the stuff on my driveway is doing great. It's been about a year and a half and it's definitely in need of another 2 coats but it is holding up remarkably well,(it's a laquer sealer. But also with that said it recently caused me a nightmare because I did'nt cut it enough and I'm dealing with white stuff I am having to put laquer thinner on and brushing it to tone it (white) down.

[Lindy]

There are a great many polyurethanes on the market that are used in our industry ... chemical resistant urethanes (CRU's), aliphatic urethanes (UV stable, moisture cured), aromatic urethanes, etc. Then there are the waterborne urethanes. I don't know anything about the one you are referrring to so can't really provide you with an opinion on it.

Generally speaking, polyurethanes have their plus/minus sides ... plus: they are quite durable as to wear/abrasion, will remin clear when subjected to UV rays, last about 3 times longer between recoat's than standard acrylic sealers ...minus: they are tempermental to apply if humidity is high, additional coats must be applied within a window of time in order to achieve intercoat adhesion (generally 2nd or additional coats must be applied within 12 hours or you must sand the initial coat prior to doing so), and they have tendency to gas out/get pinhead bubbles if you do not apply them in thin/uniform coats (not more than 1-2 mils per coat and never allowed to puddle into low spots or patterned/texture of surface).

As for lacquers, personally I have never used them much, I don't like that they flash off so quickly, making it difficult to apply evenly as to keeping wet edge to wet edge in warm/hot weather conditions; which can lead to lap marks or other cosmestic defects. I also don't relish dealing with lacquer thinners since they are so hazardous/flammable/explosive.

[sincero]

All acrylics are not the same. The best ones, ones that last 6 to 10 years outdoors have a percentage of methyl methacrylate. Methyl Methacrylate (MMA) sealers, specially the 100% solids mma sealants are more durable than polyureas (polyaspartics) and even conventionally reacted urethanes. While the 100% mma sealers are not easy to apply, the acrylic sealers with a component of mma are easy to apply. I have used the H&C clear and it is, in my opinion, useless. It does not really add gloss and generates almost no coating film. It's very low active ingredient level and generally a waste of time and money. My suggestion is to find a local supplier of acrylic sealers in california that sells one with enough mma to make it hard and durable. Check out Floric out of CA to see if their matte and gloss acrylics have mma. They also make a decent urethane and good epoxies. They have a nice and clear water based epoxy. The acrylic with mma which I use is out of florida and not cost effective for you. also check out reactamine. They have water based polyurea dispersions that are unbelievable and they have an new, water thin 100% polyurea thats fantastic priced at less than $90/gal with a shore hardness of around 85 (good). Some of the polyureas going around have a shore hardness of 50 to 65 (bad). Sherwin Williams bought General Polymers and they have all kinds of coatings but usually have to be special ordered.
mr.concreto

[NS'Creter]

OK, here's another angle on the same product. Has anyone had positive results with H&C Clear 23? I'm wondering if I had the proper expectations and sold the same to my clients would there be a degree of satisfaction? It's readily available to me and reasonably priced for the folks who won't spring for the "good stuff".

[alexwright]

OK, everyone I need some answers if they exist. Looking for an outdoor sealer that I can use on an acid stain, BUT it must not shine, so it has to be a matte/satin finish but hopefully enhance the color a bit if possible. Also same thing for indoors. Also acid stain but matte finish. When I was reading the post on the HC saying it was useless and no film. That is what I am looking for something that maybe does not film but penetrates. Impregnating sealers?? I am going to try and experiment tomorrow on a small sidewalk I have here at the house. Been wanting to get it done and I think the day has arrived. I got some sample sealers and am going to experiment. Any info appreciated. Customer is wanting acid stain and just natural look but, I would like to seal it at least with a matte finish sealer to help protect some.

[ECI]

I used the clear 23 last July on a patio over the silicone acrylic tinted
sealer and it was shiny. I wanted the silicone acrylic non tint sealer
but My SW store says it is no longer but Joe gets it still. It is clear with
no shine and is Xyleen based product, the clear 23 is mineral spirit
and Xyleen based. If you put clear 23 over the tinted acrylic you will
have problems with out gassing and bonding issues if you have to
recolor or repair it. I had this problem and it would of been nice if
the SW people knew anything!! You have little help with their products.
I used them because of a time factor and it caused me rework and money. I now know more then my SW store staff!!!

[alexwright]

I have some Matte sealer from Proline here in Oceanside, Calif. right down the road from me. I remembered and anyhow I called Proline and talked to rep. and it turns out that this sealer will do the job for the outdoor one. Plus he said I can cut with Xylene so that I can roll it on which is what i wanted as well. It will enhance the color yet remain a Matte finish. I had bought this originally to apply a matte finish on some stone precasts that I stained for a GC and it gave me a high shine. I got my money back and got to keep the 5 gallon bucket. Anyhow it seems that if it sits too long in storage or whatever, the matting agent will settle at bottom of can. Instructions did not state this. Anyhow a year later I remember that I have that sealer and looked at the can again and called Proline for info again and got the info straightened out. So it looks like I got my sealer situation sorted out. I think what I'll do tomorrow is try it out on another sidewalk I have that needs re-sealing. Still looking for good indoor Matte sealer.

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