Relocate ???

[NS'Creter]

I didn't mean to start anyone into a tail spin. I want to make a couple of points very clear here so that ya'll still trust me in the mornin'.
1. The stain and engrave process is a fantastic concept in my opinion....I believe in it or I never would have recommended it to anyone.
2. We all paid too much for our EAC equipment...but we can't change that. When I first saw it, I knew that I could go home and make my own...but I talked myself into the idea that I was paying for the R&D and the after support. The after support has been scarce for me however.
3. I've owned a few businesses, as I've said before, some successful and some not...so I knew that it would take a while to get things goin'. I haven't advertised at all this year and we're gettin' work...a fair bit of work. In my particular situation I'm paying guys to do what I would normally be doing (back injury). So, I still have hope for me.

So with all of that being said I want to run the idea of an association by you all again. I don't want to harp on it and be annoying so I'll only bring it up this time. I feel that if we made an association...sent info packages to designers and architects...chipped in on a TV ad...developped a crest/seal/logo that looked official...it would raise awareness and give credibility to what we do. We're not stupid people and we think staining and engraving is a good thing. Dammit, everyone watches the FOX network at some point...all of those lawyers and contractors that advertise on there aren't paying big money for that...if we made a general awareness ad and split the cost of airing it a lot of people would suddenly know about us. At the end of that ad it could say that it was sponsored by the "Association of Decorative Concrete Contractors" and list all of us involved. That's enough of that...I won't mention it again.
One more thing....
Yes, some folks are doing quite well in our biz. ECI, you're new but I've seen your work...it's as good as any I've seen. You have integrity and I believe that counts. Paul and Alex's work is also good. Paul makes one Helluva good point about diversification...maybe some don't need to, but in my area I do...it may be a thought for others. Joe, your work is awesome...your knowledge is great...you're helpful and a pretty damn good guy in my books. I fully understand your frustration man and I sincerely hope it works out for you and you stay in the biz. You're good for it, I hope it becomes good for you.

[NS'Creter]

Also this biz is who I am. It's who I wanna be too...it's not a job...it's a passion and a lifestyle. I am the guy here that makes the concrete pretty...maybe it's an ego thing? I don't know and I don't care...I like it.

[concreteillusions]

I agree, more than just a job, that's part of why it is so frustrating when it doesn't love ya back.

[NS'Creter]

Dammit Joe, maybe it's this northern climate that we both have to endure? I just don't get it, though. I've had sense enough to know when other stuff was goin' badly...and I just pulled the plug and moved on. No big deal. This one is part of me, though. I do have to say that this year would be decent if I were mostly a one man show. I gotta push on, though...not ready to call 'er quits just yet.

[ECI]

Thanks for the advice Paul. I was looking into a floor grinder to
prep floors as the rentals here have old stuff that does rough work. I contacted a distributor in Northern Iowa and it turns out
he is a installer as well as a material and equipment distributor.
He suggested that I come up there for a week and he would train me on crack repair as well as epoxies floors install and I could run all his machines he sells before I would buy one.
I have been to busy with everything to make it but plan on spending a week there in Sept. He claims he does jobs everyday.
Of course he sells all the products but the training would be free
except for room and board and fuel. What do you think on this
deal? centraluscoatings.com/contact.html

[NS'Creter]

I receive an email every morning from the provincial government which lists the tenders put out for bid that day. I have noticed that epoxy flooring systems is speced in a fair portion of their floor jobs. Hospitals, schools and that sort of stuff. I haven't landed any of them yet but will keep trying. There's a large company in Dartmouth that seems to have that market sewn up. My point is that it seems to be a popular trend here and is likely a good diversafication. My question is...wouldn't a P.A.P. be a better option for those jobs? If so...is it worth to try to educate those that make the decisions or just give 'em what they ask for?...or educate 'em and then give 'em what they ask for?

Overlays are another good diversafication and the vertical thing can be too. One other market that I've "played with" is concrete products...countertops, tables, benches and that sort of thing.

[concreteillusions]

Actually Trev I've been doing the epoxy floors and they are top coated with the PAP's. They are great. I just wish I could land a few. Like I said, the big jobs are usually awarded to A. Union or B. the company that holds the national account. I am neither and have no intention on becoming that.

[alexwright]

I am in the same boat as all. I am very tight right now and am seriously contemplating what to do financially before I fall in this big hole I'm already in. I, like Joe and all here, am doing everything by the book and it does'nt seem to be enough. I get lots of calls but not enough are signing, same say too expensive, which I'm not but I guess they see our work as something simple and don't feel they need to pay that much money. These same people I bet are the ones that would call you in a heartbeat and complain if something were to go wrong or take you to court. I believe it mostly matters your area and the economy your in as well. Plus we have invested in some expensive equipment and trailer. We think that the next job will get us out because that's the business mentality we have to have to survive, plus if we don't believe in ourselves we definitely won't survive. Even this way in this economy I can barely survive and am one job away from bankrupt. I know how to do overlays and am ready for epoxies, trying to expand in my services. Tenya and her husband are in Louisiana and have been in a boom economy for a time I believe. Plus Louisiana is known to have a bit more flavor in their lifestyle and thus are more prone to do this type of work to their house.

[NS'Creter]

You're right about the mentality Alex...it's almost an addiction for some...being a small business owner. With this, it's also an artform so it's personal and becomes a passion for some of us. The open-mindedness that you mention in Tenya's area certainly helps. They have been experiencing somewhat of a "boom" there as well. This is very frustrating...that some of us are struggling. I don't understand it. It's not the process 'cause it makes perfect sense to all of us...we're not morons. Maybe it is geography. I, for one, know that there's no way I'm overpriced. The most I can get for any job is $5.00/sqft...when you're talking random flagstone with 2 and 3 colors that's not overpriced. Stamping costs more, contractor installed pavers costs more, contractor installed tile is in the same ballpark, contractor installed natural stone is more expensive....I don't get it.

[concreteillusions]

If only decorative concrete were a need business instead of a want business. You could charge $15 a square foot and blame it on storms and hurricanes, speculators and politics!

[ECI]

I just got off the phone with Mark the installer and distributor that I talked about. I didn't say anything to him other then if he has experienced any decline in business if so in residential or commercial areas. He is North of me and claims he is busier then last year. He told me it generally takes 5 years to build this kind of business he has seen as he trains people as well. The first year consists of a few jobs,2nd year you do more in 2 months then all of the 1st year, 3rd year you struggle but put out a lot of bids, 4th year better then last and in the fifth year you are to busy to go do home shows and the bids from 2-4 years ago start
wanting to be done. He says he tells people over the phone a ball
park figure of what it costs and if they tell him to come out he gets about 95% of those jobs, he said the others wouldn't do it no matter how cheap you do it. He saves a lot of time and money with this method. This is not a get rich quick scheme in most cases. I just wanted see his side he has been in the biz for over
20 years. So don't throw in the towel yet guys.

[Lindy]

Sometimes it takes diversification in ones own area to develope more of a continuous cash flow, as well as increase sales.

Have you considered joining forces with assocatiated businesses that would practically run on automatic pilot. Example: do you have a locally owned retailer of the glass/all season rooms, spas/hot tubs, interior design store, etc? ... they all have a showrooms?... you could showcase your "true colors/freedom of design work, providing you with a location to send prospective customers, and those interested in what these types of businesses have to offer would be able to view your "one-of-a-kind high definition concrete (enabling them to visualize it, bringing about desire for) in a business/retail setting. It can become a very good union/networking opportunity to delve into this possibility in your area.

Since you have learned the ropes, paid your dues, invested in tools of the trade, and a developed desireable degree of creative talent, have you considered offering training seminars in your area/region of the country. You now know what tools are "really needed" and where they can be obtained ... therefore "your knowledge is a valuable commodity." Concrete contractors, that merely pour/finish ordinary concrete are in the same boat as you (accept they have sunk deeper and need a life perserver), especially since their market is more prostituted than your's is. Consider making up a postcard highlighting your wide realm of expertise (they can be mailed for only $.27 each), offering decorative concrete training in your area... mail it out to all the concrete pouring/finishing/repair contractors in your State or Province (can obtain this type of mailing list free by going to "www.thebluebook.com" or other interest accessible lists. Make sure to state that classes are offered on a monthly basis with no more than 10 contractors per class. I would be willing to bet, if you charged perhaps $500.00 per student/contractor for 2 days of training in your fields of expertise, firguring 10 contractors per month, that adds up to $5000 a month for only 2 days of your time, you would be rolling in dough. Think about it, if there was training available in "your State/Province" when you got into this, with it being offered by a professional like you have become, wouldn't you have attended? Taking it one step further, you could at some point in time down the road become a decorative concrete material supply house (many of the leading decorative concrete material manufacturers would be open to having a professional in your areas/regions that was capable of training and answering trade related questions/concerns; they would be lucky to have either of you; with you maintaining your independence. If you even trained 100 contractors a year x's $500 = $50,000 annually for your "hands-on training classes," which if you offered classes once a month, for two days over a 12 month period of time, would equate to $50,000 for only 24 days work/training. Would focus primarily on offering your training (by postcard promotion) to concrete contractors that finish/pour concrete, possibly floor tile contractors since they often loose potential customers to decorative concrete contractors like yourself, etc.). I could go on, but I believe both of you catch my drift. I know of a great many truely professional/talented contractors like yourself that have followed this plan of action and become quite successful in broading their financial stability horizons in this manner. You could still take on your own decorative concrete applications (in addition to offering training classes), but be much more selective in the ones you did and do so at a price per foot that your work is really worth).

In further clarification, the leading decorative concrete manufactures/suppliers all need knowledgable technical advisors to help grow their businesses (ie: provide regional technical expertise/support). Many will allow you to maintain your independence (in reference to allowing you the freedom to keep up your independent contractor applications), while also serving as a technical advisor in your area/region (so long as you promote their projects). They might also be open to having a decorative concrete supply house in your area/region; to go along with training and technical support. You should really mull this opportunity over as well. This is basically what I do, in that I have served as GoldenLook International's Technical Service Manager for over 12 years, but I also can (and occasionally do) various types of concrete resurfacing projects as well (but only the ones that I feel are a challenge and I charge a money making price for) ... of course, since I have specialized in a wide realm of concrete resurfacing (decorative concrete, industrial/commercial coatings, epoxy flooring, seamless waterproof interior/exterior rubberized decorative surfaces (waterproofing is a very profitable business, child's play/thick rubberized safety surfacing (such McDonald & Burger King plagrounds/waterparks/etc) since 1979 (as a independent contractor and tech service advisor for major manufacturer); my knowledge has VALUE (just as both of you have VALUABLE knowledge to build your futures on).

All this ought to give you some food for thought as to your futures in this industry.

Lindy

[cfs1]

this has turned into a very good discussion, I hope I did not offend anyone by saying that EAC was over priced. I love the equipment that I have seen from them I just can't justify it for myself, thats not to say I haven't bought others over priced and over promised stuff. ECI learn all you can when ever you can about all types of high def concrete. When it comes to the large floor prep equipment I would rather sub that out to someone who has already bought the big machines, they usually work cheaper and faster than I can rent or buy and learn to operate it. There are alot of good people on here I hope nothing but the best for all you ( and me)

[NS'Creter]

I love my tools and what they can do, but admit that I paid too much. No offense taken here. I have often thought of what Lindy mentioned...train people, develop a product line and advise. That is where the money is, no doubt. For my area however, training people isn't an option for me. I feel that I'd only be training my competition and this place could never support more than one of us. Networking and referrals are great ways to get out there, provided that they work both ways...be careful. Diversify. That's my option and my advise. I have done the best I can do to offer other related services and plan to add more as I can.
How about that HTC rig ya got Joe? I figured that was the next big thing...polishing. Plus the quicker and better prep that machine can do.
Also, I agree with that 5 year statement...I have seen growth each year. There are no "get rich quick" plans...nothing legal, moral or safe anyway. Granted some folks are fortunate and take off right away from day one, but they are a rarity I would think. In any business.
Let's lobby our governments to pass a law which bans pavers and stamped concrete. Nah! We'll go a step further and also make it law that everyone must have stained and engraved concrete...at any price we command...HahHawHawHah!! Then we'll be like the insurance companies.

[ECI]

We could always contact EAC and see what they would pay for used equipment as they like to control the avaibility of used equipment on the market, When I was at school they had a deluxe trailer package for sale used that they picked up! ;D