Relocate ???

[NS'Creter]

A while back our good friend Joe from Concrete Illusions posted his biz for sale. It was a little shocking at first but after some consideration I could understand his position. Obviously, I don't know all of his business...only what he has said on boards to all of us...but I can see his point and I'm considering a similar situation for myself. You are all aware of my back injury and the physical limitations it presents so you can imagine how this affects my biz. We have been busy all season and still have work booked, but with me not having very much physical participation all I'm doing is making jobs for my 3 workers. There has been little to no profit. I love this biz, what we can do and have no intentions for quitting. I get to design, plan, manage the work, do a little hands on and I think it's enough for me. Unfortunately, this area will not support my biz enough for this format to work. A few of my friends have moved to Calgary, Alberta in pursuit of their own careers and are doing very well. One in particular has been here for a week and we've had some good conversations regarding me possibly relocating to there. I've been there and know what's available. In the Calgary area I could get the very deserving $8-10.00/sqft of random flagstone without question. In that area, 90% of the driveways are concrete. I think that I could start a job there and spend the rest of the season working my way up the street. I have put 4 years into building this biz here and have to admit that I doubt it will ever be more than it is. I need to consider this relocation possibility. Under normal circumstances, it would be best to sell my biz here, buy new equipment and start fresh in my new area...as Joe spoke of for his situation. Since this area is so quiet I may end up just taking my tools with me...if I go. It's about a 3500 mile move, by the way. I feel that it's too late for this year...even with garage floors being considered...but this is something that my wife and I have been discussing for next year. I don't want to blindly jump, so much conversation and consideration will take place.
What are the thoughts and opinions of my esteemed colleagues out there? I'd love to read your thoughts.

[alexwright]

It is definitely a careful and thoughtful situation. Think of all different scenarios and so on. I would love to move and go back to Texas but right now is not the right time for me if ever. For me it's a spiritual decision that keeps me here and other things but if the time is right and I feel a definitive conviction that its time then I will. I also have been pondering the same and staying in the biz, it would just allow me to get out of debt and start up again debt free. Now I know how to do it in all aspects and would be quite simple I believe. Could you start advertising up there and travel to do jobs with your son in tow and gety some labors up there? Would this friend be willing to help in a place to stay till you get it all figured out? You can advertise and give quotes over phone and picture e-mails, get your friend to measure for you. Pile up these jobs and once you get two or three lined up, go for a little extended stay and get it done. While you are there you can do bids on others and see if another one pops up while you are there. If all is well go for it and do your move. This would be the safe way. Or can you go for a trial stay? Lock up the house and load up the truck and get a small apartment and give it a whirl. You would still want to line up at least three jobs before you go. Maybe your friend can be somewhat of a salesman for you with his neighbors and co-workers.

[alexwright]

I have a brother that is kind of starting up on this and I have told him if he gets a big job I can go to Texas and help him out. I could use it as a vacation as well, to see family and make some money at same time. We'll see how it pans out.

[NS'Creter]

I'm not sure how it would take place Alex. Caution certainly must be paramount. I could certainly have temporary accomodation with my friend(s) there. That wouldn't be an issue. One of my bud's operates equipment for a landscaper so that could be a decent contact. The guy who has been visiting here all week goes back today. Last night he gave me names of a few prominant developers. In that area the subdivisions are built and then bought with landscaping and concrete driveways in place. Here I would shy away from an arrangement with a General Contractor but it may be the way to go out there. An exclusive deal with a developper could allow him an edge over his competition (having the driveways stained and engraved). I don't know...it's all supposition for now...could be a case of thinking that the grass is greener...sometimes this area can be discouraging.
I haven't heard a thing regarding that big municipal project I talked about before. The design firm was instructed to meet with me to find out what we could do together. The engineer reassured me and told me that they would be calling. I've heard nothing and nothing has been started. That project would have been the big bump I need...it'll all work in the end I guess.

[Lindy]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence ... sometimes it is merely a mirage (figment of your imagination); in other cases it can be your destiny and worth your while to make a change.

It definitely is something you must mull over carefully, testing the water, before you jump in to something that may not be the best move. In other words it can be hard to rebuild bridges that you have burned down.

Before you leap, you really need to do your "homework" ...
** is the economy strong and stable in the new area?
** what is the cost of living there, as compared to your current location (housing, utilities, warehouse rental, etc.)?
** is the cost of doing business in general, as to labor rates/local tax structure/etc equal to/or more than Nova Scotia? I know a guy that decided he wanted to move to Hawaii, had several jobs lined up there and thought he would be able to live the life of Riley (whoever that lucky folklore guy was). Granted he got top dollar for his work (3 times more than he got in Colorado) and he could work year-round, but the cost of living/housing/business was eating all the big money he was making up in Hawaii. He eventually moved back home to Colorado.
** how much established competition would you have in the new location ... on one hand, if all the contractors currently specializing in the decorative concrete trade there have opened the doors to it's use/specification and the trade has a proven performance history, this is a major plus for you to build upon (they may have built the wagon, but you can jump in and hitch a ride on their pioneering success in the area) ... on the other hand, you would be the new guy on the block and would have to pave your own pathways and professionally play a little defense to gain your market share. At least you would not be starting out in the large metro area you are considering moving to having to educate potential customer to the freedom of high definition concrete design, as would be the case if you were the first to break ground in the a new area.

Friends in a new area an asset of great value since they can refer family, friends, business contacts they know/associate with, etc. to you ... making it more hospitable working field of prospective customers leads. Of course, you will need to have applications in place there that can be viewed to attest to quality of workmanship and attention to detail; so, if you could travel to the area and do a few jobs (maybe even do your friends driveway since it would provide "drive by curb appeal" that would be a major plus factor. After you had a few applications to "show off" of your workmanship there, and feel that you can justify making the move due to other jobs lined up, then "go for it."

The longer you ponder, the more time escapes you. Personally, I like to make a two column page .... pro's on one side, con's on the other ... adding to the pro's/con's as you think of the over an extended period of time. If the number of pro's are much higher than the con's then "go for it."

Lindy

[alexwright]

Everybody that moves to Hawaii for biz goes broke except for the filthy rich and even some of those bite it. Anyhow as for giving the GC a break is ok. You have to see that as income coming in while you establish yourself and do your own marketing and so on.

[NS'Creter]

Alberta is quite different from Nova Scotia in many ways. It's our oil-rich province and seems to have been having a "boom" since the 70's. Their sales tax is 7% less than most other provinces so a lot of things are considerably cheaper. On the other hand, because of the "boom" housing is more expensive. There's a different attitude there...more progressive. There's a decorative concrete contractor/supplier in Calgary that's been operating since the mid 90's. The name is Hardrock Developments and he's also an engraver. If this goes to further consideration I'll contact him. It's not actually Calgary that I would go to...it's Airdrie, a suburb of Calgary.
The move may or may not take place. As you folks have said there's so much to consider. I don't want to pull the plug on this biz and maybe I'm wrong, but I have doubts if this area will/can support it the way I need it to.

[alexwright]

If you talk to this guy ask him if he's the one getting supplies from Super-Krete. I keep forgetting to call my rep for that info again.

[NS'Creter]

I'll do that Alex. I'm in no big panic or rush...lots of time to consider. Speaking with him is a definate "to do" for my consideration.

[concreteillusions]

I find this all interesting as I sti and ponder my own future in this business. I am coming to the realization that while I know my stuff and do great work and tons of compliments on what I do, this business is not providing me with any type of lifestyle other than job to job survival. I have been doing this crap for over 3 years now and I'm really waking up tot he fact that I am in more debt than I have ever been in my life and have less money to actually go towards supporting my family than I have ever made in the past. All the god damn money that I make goes to supporting the business, insurance, gas, supplies, interest payments on the stupid ass 50k trailer that I had to have. Being completely honest, in better than 3 years I still owe over 46 grand on that damn thing with no end in sight and short of selling for exactly what I owe which will probably be a long shot I will owe money on this business long after it is dead and gone. I am absolutely tired of this business running my every weaking moment, tired of busting my ass day in and day out only to be stressed out about having enough money to let the business survive another month and maybe we will get out of this never ending slump. I want to make money beyond just survival and salting for the moths when business is slow because apparently it isn't just a summer/winter thing anymore. I can't go on anymore with Concrete Illusions, I am literally just sinking slower everytime I get a pathetic little 3k job and the 12k - 20k jobs I can't find anywhere. Every big job wants union or it is some out of state guy who does all of the stores, corporate accounts. I personally am not interested in being gone from my home and family all the time so I wouldn't go after that crap. I guess my question is to all of you who have known me or know of me and do what we do, Is anyone in this business really making it or is everybody sitting around waiting for that one big job thats going to set them for life? I obviously am not a good business man when it comes to making money, I always figured on providing a great product, giving great service, trying to earn an honest buck, having a great work ethic, doing things by the book and somehow everything else would just follow and I would be a success. I guess now all I really need is a compnay I can trust to help me liquidate everything I have, so I can determine how much I still owe and accept that I'm gonna have to try and find some type of career where I can do the 9-5 bump and grind to get me through the rest of my life. Lost for words........

[NS'Creter]

You've said a lot there Joe. Maybe it's dangerous for us to discuss anything right now 'cause we're in the same frame of mind. I had/have the same ideals when it comes to building this biz. Honesty, integrity, fair prices and good work...like you said "the rest will follow". Dammit! It should. However, I'm on the same roller coaster ride that you describe. I have had a couple of harsh events in my life which I have blamed for my biz situation....the house fire and the back injury. I've also blamed geography. I've diversafied my services with a "give 'em what they want" attitude. I just don't know what the answer is. I enjoy this biz very much and really don't want to quit. I've had others...some successful, some not. It was easier to walk away from the others...this one really is "who I am". Ya know? I hate that you're having a hard time too...and Geez, I've encouraged others to "jump in" because I love the biz so much. The whole concept of stain and engrave still makes perfect sense to me. We have been fairly steady...as the weather allows...this year, but it doen't generate enough money to support my house let alone itself. If our "Co-Op" had somehow evolved into being and from that we created recognition for what we do with the designers and architects. That would make a difference...I think. Damn, exposed aggregate is still getting speced on projects here! A 1970's trend...but it's recognized and better than plain 'crete. I've read that Concrete Sherpa stuff that the concrete Network offers...same as everything else it seems. It all comes down to my barely existant cash flow.
I feel your frustration my friend...wish I had an answer for us. Who knows?...maybe if we put our heads together we could come up with a plan that would help us all.

[concreteillusions]

I'm beginning to think the only ones who really make money in this business are the one who come with a product that get schmucks like us to buy into it. I understand the "Is who I am statement." I feel like it is becoming too much of who I am and I am getting sick of who I have become. The same sales pitch over and over and over. The never ending explaining of what I do and to still have people that have known me since the begining of it all still think I pour concrete and stamp it........ To run and do estimate after estimate after estimate thinking each one is more postive than the last only to end up with nothing in the end but thanks, thats more than we were looking to spend, or, thats not in the budget......... Well, spending an ungodly amount on gas running all over the place and spending hours educating people only to get slapped in the face wasn't in my f-ing budget either. I'm beyond frustrated and saddened to think that the skills that I have are simply going to go to waste. I do enjoy the work I do, but I really enjoy fishing, working around my garage and shit like that to but it doesn;t pay the bills.

[ECI]

Wow, I have looked up to you two guys as where I would like to be someday, you have blown me away. Are you at the point where it has turned into a job and not an extension of your creativity or you guys in a slump? I am just asking cause I have
seen your work and it is very good stuff. This kind of takes the wind out of my sails as I thought Joe was in a higher income
area then me and that he could get a lot more per square foot then I can here. If he can't make it and Trevor is in the same
boat and I think you both volume wise had lots of jobs,
that more would of been very hard to complete them. It will be very hard for me to make it as well. I have not been to busy as
my first year and was looking forward to next year. So how do you make it in this biz? You guys do great work, seem to be fairly
busy so if you got more work how would you do it with the same
staff? The real high dollar jobs would call for more sq ft and would take longer right? If you lived in a area that you could get
a high sq ft price wouldn't every thing else be high as well? I don't know how to put this but are you guys over reacting or
just tired or depressed? I know others out there are making a living and I wonder how they are doing it. Tenya and Bobby are just a husband and wife team right? Are they getting way more
per sq ft then everybody else. I mentioned them cause I think they are doing well from what I have read? They don't have a lot
of employees do they? I am just asking questions to make us look at the whole industry and see why two of the best and maybe more are having trouble when they seem to have work?
Don't take this wrong guys I am very concerned as I will or could
be in the boat with you next year....and even if I wasn't I still care
about all our problems.

[concreteillusions]

I read all the stories about so and so who bought into the biz and four moths later they could go out and buy thier new Harleys with cash and everyone who was on the verge of bankruptcy and now they are making more money than they could ever have imagined. I bought into this stuff, I promoted this stuff because I truely belive in it. I've seen where I could make a great living in this business doing what I do. In theory I should be making 100k a year and have the business expenses paid off. I've made at least 2-1/2 times what I owe on my equipment in the past three years and I still can't seem to find enough extra to pay the credit cards I've had since my start up in 05'. Every time I turn around I'm paying more on insurance or gas or advertising or blah blah blah and the list goes on forever. I'm in a total catch 22, I can't afford to pay anyone to go out and do the marketing, do the estimates, land the jobs, order the products and schedule the start dates while I am on a job that is currently in progress where I am putting in 10-12 hours a day trying to complete the steps in the process. I simply do not have enough hours in a day to wear as many hats as I am wearing, not to mention be a husband and a father that has a wife with a full time job and have the responsibility of getting my 3 kids where they need to go in the morning or having them run around the house screaming and yelling while I try to contact potential clients and talk to them all while trying not sound like I am calling from Chuckie cheese. How are you supposed to get more business while you are working on the business you already have to keep the flow rolling steady when you only have yourself and cannot afford to hire or educate someone else on how to sell the product for you. I'm not even going to try and go the route of having someone actually do the work while I'm out marketing, IU can only imagine the mess that would be.

This business would support me and be just fine if I could have a steady flow of business, job after job, week after week, but it just simply is not happening. Feast or famine is true, unfortunately the feasts only last so long and when it all averages out it doesn't cut it. A high profit job is only good if you have one to back it up when your done becasue the insurance, gas, advertising, interest payment, credit cards, cell phone, internet oh and not to mention the transmission in your truck, the balding 6 year old 75,000 mile tires on your truck do not stop coming when the jobs do.

Wish I could just shut off my debt accumulation while I am between projects. Maybe insure each job as they happen, hell, my general liability is running right now, on a Sunday, while I am typing this message, why?? Why pay for a month of insurance when I am only actually working 2 weeks of it???

Hopefully the broker will call me on Monday and I can find someone with the financial means or the brains to run this business somewhere other than straight into the ground.

[cfs1]

this is my third year in business, i have all but eliminated pouring any more concrete. i still do the occasional stamp for the referrals that i recieve from past clients. I am now focusing on overlays and epoxies floors as well as staining. I did not go through EAC mainly because i thought and still think the tools and supplies from them are way over priced. i also think that not every slab is suited to staining, so offering an overlay is another way to go, it seems as though EAC taught against that. not every slab needs an overlay either some just need torn out. i am busier this year than ever, havent missed a week since april hit and the rains stopped. I am still running two to three weeks out and have four bids to get out. one a fairly large commercial job that will help with winter slow down. concreteillusions said it all we said that his overhead was way to high. inexspensive hand tools is all you need to get started, rent the larger stuff until you can afford and make financial sense to buy it. i have insurance a cash employee when i need him and two car detached garage to store tools and supplies.
i am no business man by any stretch but i do pay myself first then put the rest back into business acount.
good luck to you two i hope it all works out for you you both do great work
ECI..don't let all the shiny tools suck you in get a couple good hand grinders get some training on overlays and epoxies, have your next job give you half down to start the job and buy the stuff you need when finished the rest is yours and now have the tools for the next one